The Bright Side of Obamacare’s Broken Promise

Despite what President Obama said, thousands of people are being forced to change plans. But their new ones may offer better coverage.

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Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP

President Barack Obama, accompanied by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, announces a revamped contraception policy on Feb. 10, 2012, in Washington D.C.

President Obama has broken his promise that Americans who like their health insurance plans can keep them under the Affordable Care Act. Citing the new law, insurers have recently mailed policy cancellation notices to hundreds of thousands of people across the country, providing more ammunition to critics who say the law is bad for consumers. And that number may grow. NBC News reported on Monday that half or more of those who buy coverage independently may be forced to switch plans in 2014.

But the truth is that only a small percentage of Americans will have their health insurance choices narrowed because of the ACA. Approximately 15 million Americans who currently buy health insurance on the open market will see substantial changes to their choices of plans for 2014. Such changes are common on the individual market, but the new health care law will lead to an increase. The rest of the insured population will see very few changes as a result of Obamacare. Here’s why: about 30 percent of the population currently has health coverage through Medicare or Medicaid, public insurance programs in which benefits will continue mostly unchanged. Another 50 percent of Americans get coverage through employers and already have no choice whether they can keep the exact same insurance plan and price structure year-to-year. That decision is made by employers, who offer employees a pre-determined menu of plans and prices.

(MOREObamacare Deadline Extended to March 31)

Obama’s promise of coverage continuity has been broken for those who currently buy private plans on the open market, but many may be better off. The individual health insurance plans being cancelled this fall are generally being discontinued because they do not meet new ACA standards for insurance. The law requires that plans cover a package of what the federal government defines as “essential health benefits.” These include basic categories of care, including hospitalization, emergency care, maternity services, mental health services and prescription drugs. The law also limits out-of-pocket spending and bans insurers from setting various annual and lifetime limits on coverage. (To balance the increased cost of covering these services, some insurers have narrowed the provider networks for plans being offered under the ACA.)

These new standards will lead to more comprehensive coverage for many people. Previously, many plans sold on the open market offered coverage so skimpy that it did not protect consumers from financial ruin. More than 60 percent of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007 were due to medical bills. Of those who declared bankruptcy due to medical costs, about three-quarters had health insurance.

As the law’s proponents are fond of noting, in many cases, more expensive coverage will actually cost the same or less than less comprehensive plans offered in the past. Those purchasing coverage on their own through the law’s insurance exchanges will be eligible for new federal subsidies if their earn up to 400 percent of the federal poverty level, about $46,000 for an individual and $95,000 for a family of four.

(MOREBefore and After: A Remarkable Year of Recovery from Hurricane Sandy)

Yet, many of those receiving insurance cancellation notices do not know if they are eligible for federal subsidies to buy new plans. The federal web site managing insurance enrollment in 36 states continues to be slow or non-functioning. White House officials say the site, healthcare.gov, will be fully operational by the end of November. Until then, the site’s lack of usability will continue to be a practical problem for consumers and a political problem for the White House.

On Monday, CBS News broadcast a report about a 56-year-old Florida woman named Dianne Barrette, whose BlueCross BlueShield policy is being cancelled due to the ACA. According to the report, Barrette pays $54 per month for her current policy and was offered a replacement plan costing $591 per month. Reached by phone, Barrette said her current plan, called GoBlue, covers doctor visits, but does not pay for many basic services, like hospitalization, that are mandatory under new ACA standards.

“I do have to find something with more coverage than what I have now as I’m getting older,” she told TIME. “I just grabbed this because it was something I found useful for the time being.” Barrette said she earns less than $46,000 a year, meaning she would likely be eligible for new Obamacare subsidies to cut the cost of enrolling in a new comprehensive insurance plan. But, said Barrette, “I tried to go on the Obama web site and of course I can’t get on. I don’t know where to go from here. It’s kind of frustrating.”

(MOREMore Website Woes: HealthCare.Gov Crashes for Hours)

563 comments
PfWag
PfWag

Is Ms Pickert really this stupid?

JoeWol
JoeWol

I'm an uninsured 31 yr old insulin dependent diabetic.  I was thrilled at the chance to finally see a doctor and get insurance.  My choices are all bronze star rated.  They range from 300-500 a month and only cover 50% of medical costs.  I can't afford even 10% of anything medical.  I'll never use the insurance.  I'm barely paying bills and staying alive now without losing 3-500 a month for something I can never afford to use. 

Everything is ridiculously expensive medically.  That's the problem.  I couldn't care less about insurance, I just wanna be able to see a doctor finally.  I'm buying over the counter insulin from walmart now, costs me 200 a month just to stay alive. 

ToddClayton
ToddClayton

I think i will go with the $ 95.00 gold plan.

SteveSdr
SteveSdr

The ACA will help many people.  However, after decades of continuous coverage, my family will be uninsured in 2014.  Caught in a gap with unaffordable exchange premiums and no subsidy due to exceeding income limits by just a few hundred dollars.

The goodwill Obama and Democrats had is evaporating under the false promise of the ACA by cancelling, state tax commission approved, affordable healthcare policies.  Rural exchange policies are unaffordable being two to three times more expensive than urban policies. Democrats should work quickly to grandfather existing policies to take this issue off the table or face two election cycles of "they lied."

kieshacmessick
kieshacmessick

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IanBortner
IanBortner

Obama is a dirty, stinking liar.  Just wait until 2014 when the riots will start.  Forcing hundreds of dollars a month from the pockets of struggling young people is sickening and unbelievable.  What about the high price of education, the stagflating economy. and the lack of full time work?  I'll never put one penny into this disgusting abomination, I don't care what the punishment is.  I'll never get insurance of any kind, period.  It's all a scam to suck your money away and jack up the prices of services.  The government could have looked for ways to CUT COSTS and instead it forces us all to pay even more.  I say you'll get my hard-earned money when you take it from my cold, dead fingers you tyrants.

skeezy99
skeezy99

""hundreds of thousands"? In a population of what? It sounds like a lot, yet the enrollment period is not yet closed. Of course, there have been problems with the site. Otherwise, Republicans and naysayers would have nothing to bitch and whine about. All is not lost. Why not allow the process to proceed and wait until you have something concrete to say?

Or you could find positive ways to support the plan, despite its apparent problems? NO ONE in this country can possibly KNOW how this will go, before it has had time to prove itself!

There are always 2 sides to any story, issue or debate. One side is always propaganda, if no alternative aspect is given.

SmoothEdward1
SmoothEdward1

Only an idiot would think they would be permitted to keep some crappy policy that covers nothing while everyone else was required to have more comprehensive coverage that wouldn't actually stick the rest us with your medical bills when you got sick. What makes you think you're so special? It's obvious the President was referring to vast majority of people who either get their coverage through their jobs, or have individual plans that actually cover something. Stop whining.

anolesman
anolesman

90% of the people who are trying to sign up for Obamacare and are having problems with it should not worry. After all they are getting exactly what they voted for. And the funny thing, the ones ( Congress) who voted for the ACA before they read it are exempt from it.............And lets not forget the Supreme Court, they made it into law and do you think they are concerned about it.....................These are the Fools of Fools

KnewsWorthy
KnewsWorthy

This article completely belittles the thousands of insured Americans who were cancelled and forced to find new policies. I don’t care how many people got screwed by the lies told to them, how dare you report them as insignificant in the big picture. Perhaps instead of telling people things will be better when the website is up and running, you hold off your opinion until then too? You CAN’T know for sure things will be better, are you a reporter or a psychic? I just lost my respect for Time magazine and their integrity. Oh, and bright side of a broken promise is pretty much an oxymoron, you moron!

WalterShann
WalterShann

What has become obvious to me in the past few weeks is there are some major fixes needed to the ACA beyond the website disaster. With the 2014 elections around the corner and so many Americans becoming more and more unhappy with so many aspects of the plan democrat senators and representatives will demand privately if not publicly that changes be made to satisfy the voting public. Their voters, who are screaming foul louder with each passing day. If they do not take steps to correct the mistakes then voters will speak at the ballot box next November and there will be new members elected solely on the promise of doing so. Changes will have to be made, but do not throw the whole thing out and start over or we will never have another chance to do what the ACA was implemented to do which was a worthwhile goal. Provide affordable health care to those that did not have it. It was never designed to bring everyone down to the lowest common level as it looks like it could do. Or make health care simply beyond the ability to afford it for those that had a plan only to loose it because it did not meet some requirement of the ACA.

Fix the parts that need fixing and keep moving forward. How come I can figure this out but Washington can't?

Mcschweety
Mcschweety

This "bright side" is horrible.

Why would anyone defend outright lies Obama told the whole country, repeatedly?

Calling the millions of cancellations "natural churn" is ridiculous. The cancellations are for ONE reason: Obamacare.

Trying to say there's "better" insurance on the other side of that cancellation is a LIE.

If I'm evicted from a house and the landlord says "here's a newspaper, check the classifieds for a 'better' option" - I'm still EVICTED.

When I buy a car, the dealer doesn't come back and confiscate it months or years later and force me to buy a far more expensive car with inferior performance. If he did, I'd club him in my driveway.

Get real, folks, this is the jagged edge of socialism about to amputate our liberties.

Mcschweety
Mcschweety

For those delusional obamacare supporters who somehow want to wish away the lies Obama told to the entire country - here is the cancellation letter explaining how the ACA requirements force them to discontinue the coverage I have for my family. Keep in mind I got an ACA quote (barely) from the estimator interface, and I don't qualify for any handouts or freebies the supporters are so excited about. $1078 per mo, $12,000 deductible. That's insane, totally unaffordable:

http://twitter.com/Mcschweety/status/395067994084093953/photo/1

Mcschweety
Mcschweety

I can't afford obamacare, but I had a plan I could afford until the ACA cancelled it.The ACA option is NOT better.

My plan is $525 per mo, private family coverage, not employer sponsored. $3K deductible, 80/20, with $75 max prescription for name brand, or $35 max for generic. Family of 3, we are in our 40's, one child. Anthem bluecross/blueshield, Colorado.

The ACA quote is $1078 per month, $12,000 deductible. I can't afford it, period.

I don't qualify for any subsidy because I make too much. That doesn't mean I have $500 per month to burn. I have a mortgage, taxes, property taxes, life insurance, disability insurance, homeowners insurance, utilities, groceries, all that.

Obamacare is a lifetime mandate I can't afford. That's $180,000 over 30 years I never planned on. Do I stop saving for college for my child, stop paying into my retirement, sell my house?

Wrecking and deceiving Peter to pay Paul is economic and political suicide. We ALL lose. So, obamacare is holding working people hostage. He lied, repeatedly, to sell false virtue to our entire country. I won't pay a dime into his ponzi scheme. Let it burn. Obama built this failure and is hurting millions of hard working taxpayers in the process. He knew he was being overtly deceptive.

No trust, no love.

valentine.godoflove
valentine.godoflove

IN CAPS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE ELDERLY...I DEFEND THE WEAK AGAINST THE TYRANTS....KNIGHT TEMPLAR

OBAMA, THE HIDDEN MOSLEM PRESIDENT. LIED TO THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES REGARDING THE

UN-AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE ACT........

..#1. OBAMA SAID IT WOULD SAVE THE AVERAGE FAMILY $2,500.........REALITY CHECK....IT COSTS THE FAMILY $2,500 MORE!!!!.....HE JUST SCREWED YOUR PAYCHECK AND TOOK FOOD AWAY FROM THE MOUTHS OF YOUR BABIES AND CHILDREN !!!!

#2.  WHERE HAVE YOU BOUGHT ANYTHING IN THE INTERNET ....WHERE YOU HAVE TO ANSWER PERSONAL QUESTIONS .....BEFORE.....YOU BUY ANYTHING?

THIS IS NOT ABOUT HEALTHCARE....IT IS ABOUT THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THEIR RADICAL LEFT WING NEO COMMUNIST ALLIES.....WHO ARE MORE INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT ......EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU.....SO THEY CAN USE IT AGAINST YOU !!!

#3.   WHY DOES THE GOVERNMENT "FORCE YOU" TO BUY SOMETHING.....LIKE HEALTHCARE.....THAT MEANS....IN THE FUTURE ....THEY CAN FORCE YOU TO BUY ANYTHING....THAT THE LEFTWING NEO COMMUNIST DEMOCRATS WANT!!

#4. WHY DOES THE IRS.....ACT LIKE THE POLICE AND GESTAPO.....IF YOU DO NOT BUY HEALTHCARE?...

DO THEY ARREST YOU IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BUY COCA-COLA?

GET THE POINT?.....OR ARE YOU JUST PLAIN .....STUPID.

#5.  WHY DID MICHELLE OBAMA'S CLASSMATE BUILD THE BILLION DOLLAR COMPUTER NETWORK AND SOFTWARE SYSTEM.....THAT DOES NOT WORK......AFTER 3 YEARS....OF PREPARATION?

CORRUPTION IN HIGH PLACES......ROBBING YOU CITIZENS OF YOUR HARD EARNED DOLLARS.....NICKEL AND DIME.....NICKEL AND DIME.....

HOW DOES THE KICKBACK SYSTEM WORK......

OBAMA IS SUCCEEDING IN FULFILLING THE "DREAMS OF HIS FATHER"......TO DESTROY THE COLONIAL POWERS.....LIKE .....THE U,S,A,, ENGLAND, FRANCE....ETC.....

WHO IS GOING TO SAVE US FROM THIS ANTI-CHRIST?....YOU KNOW....THAT THEY ARE FORBIDDING CHRISTIANITY IN THE ARMY TODAY......

VALENTINE, WORLD HISTORIAN, MILITARY HISTORIAN, POLITICAL HISTORIAN, COMEDIAN...LOL


   


jones.gordont
jones.gordont

Finally I see some reasonable and knowledgeable responses rather than political rants. Many people mad because they would rather carry no insurance and let the rest of us who carry reasonable insurance coverage pay for them through our premiums. Many people with cheap health insurance plans that are in reality a rip off - low premiums, denials due to pre-existing conditions, minimal insurance benefits,  low lifetime max. . ACA (Obamacare) sets new reasonable standards for coverage. Republicans and Right Wing whackos and right leaning press are like vultures looking for something, anything to feed on. Elected Republican Representatives who are screaming probably have been too lazy to read the terms of ACA or have read it and are too dumb to understand it - but they got elected - wow. Keep in mind that most people wanted a single payer system like Medicare - not politically possible at this time. ACA is a good start toward controlling an out of control medical cost situation.  Smile if you have an IQ greater than one (1).

MarilynBrenden
MarilynBrenden

OK, here's a question I haven't seen anyone discuss.  Now that Obamacare is in, does that mean COBRA is gone?

BobFromDistrict9
BobFromDistrict9

By calling that a broken promise you lied. All the ACA says is you don't have to change your individually purchased plan because of the law. It does not apply to a company plan, even if you pay for it, nor does it force the insurance companies to keep those plans. 

 Your credibility is on the line here, not the president's.


Yoshi
Yoshi

I'm waiting to see what effect this has on the economy as people who are forced to spend more for health insurance spend less elsewhere. Wages are stagnant to declining. Fuel prices have this same effect as we have all observed. Too bad we couldn't get single payer (either state or federal level). This "gift" to the health insurance industry will be far more costly than anyone can foresee right now(governmental fuzzy-math, notwithstanding).


DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@SteveSdr , ask your employer to allow you to work an hour less each day for a few weeks to bring your salary down to qualify for a subsidy.  You must have a good income (median wage is 26K....but subsidies for a family of 4 go up to 94K a yr, which is in top 10%.  So around 90% of people who are currently uninsured will qualify for some level of subsidy.


10%, who make over 46 if single, 94K with 2 kids), will not.  Their complaint?  "I make too much."


So you can't afford to pay 12% of your income for healthcare, tho you are among top earners, and "make too much."?  I have no sympathy, as I reflect on the 30 million who will get coverage for the first time.

I have a co worker who blames the working poor who will be able to afford healthcare for the first time for the fact that, with an income of over 90K and 3 in the household, he does not qualify for a subsidy.  He makes too much!   What a terrible fate!

In fact, the subsidies to those with modest or median income, do not come from the premiums private customers thru the exchange pay....these, as always, go directly to the private pockets of the insurance companies.  The ACA is funded out of various taxes on the rich, a tax on medical devices, and eliminating wasteful spending in Medicare.  


Tax the rich.  Why do I rob banks.  That's where the money is.


How did they get all that money?  Oh, they stole it, it was ours.  (remember when you had equity in your home). Jefferson warned us about both banks and the MIC ("Banks are even more dangerous than standing armies......................." 

.if the banks and insurance companies  control the money, one day you will wake up and find that they own everything. " (paraphrased)  We call it debt; debt is how banks create more money.  In 2006, 70% of home equity was in the "homeowner); by 2010, 70% of the equity was owned by the banks   


Jefferson wrote in 1825 to William Branch Giles of "a vast accession of strength from their younger recruits, who, having nothing in them of the feelings or principles of '76, now look to a single and splendid government of an aristocracy, founded on banking institutions, and monied incorporations under the guise and cloak of their favored branches of manufactures, commerce and navigation, riding and ruling over the plundered ploughman and beggared yeomanry."


What a commie!




DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@IanBortner , if you refuse to ever get health insurance, it will not be long before we pry your hard-earned money from you cold dead fingers.


In 1795, the Congress, filled with the Founding Fathers, passed a law, without one dissenting vote, to establish a fully socialized medicine plan for individuals, based on mandate, taxes, and penalties for non-compliance.  Apparently the people who wrote the Constitution agreed 100% that the govt had the power to do this.


At first, it just applied to the maritime workers, but in time it expanded to other workers and has never been ruled unconsitutional, since it was designed the authors of the Constitution.


Now the ACA is far from socialized medicine: it uses exclusively private insurers and private doctors and hospitals, whereas socialized medicine has doctors who are govt workers and govt owned hospitals, like the VA.  Or the UK.


So how is a concept accepted unanimously by the Founding fathers, watered down to include only private medicine,  tyranny?  


So just pay the damned 1% penalty and when you get seriously ill or injured, you can free load at the Emergency Room.   


For the 30 million involved, most will get subsidies and so be able to afford coverage for the first time.  For those 15 million whose policies are being cancelled (they could have been grandfathered if the insurance companies had not purposely made substantial changes like hiking up premiums or deductibles, which voids the grandfather provision), they will most of them qualify for subsidies and get far more comprehensive policies with full hospitalizaition, drugs, mental health, and no caps.) and those who make too much to qualify will just have to content with either paying 1% of their income as a penalty or spending about 12% of their income for superior healthcare polcies for their families.


The subsidies go up to 94K for a family of 4, so if you make twice the median wage (which is 26K, in which case you will be able to afford coverage for the first time) with a family, you will get a subsidy to make your cofverage very affordable.


Healthcare as a basic right , according to US law (the US having signed the UN Universal Rights treaty, which the constitution counts (a signed treaty) as "the supreme law of the land."

Anyone who both calls the Founding Fathers tyrants (for imposing healthcare) and disputes the supreme law of the land should just take a time out.  

DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@SmoothEdward1 , in fact the ACA did allow people to keep their crappy policies if no substantial changes were made (like raising premiums or deductibles substantially) made after the policy was originally written, but the insurance companies, which will get over 30 million new customers with superior and more costly policies (but for most lower in price due to govt subsidies up to 94K income), knowing that making substantial changes would void the grandfather provision, did just that, and now is cancelling those policies so that their customers will be forced onto the exchanges to buy new, improved, comprehensive, but more expensive policies, due to value added.  Those who make too much (46K for 1, 94K for 4) will not qualify, and this is about 10-15% of the population.


I do not consider the complaint    "I make too much," a serious concern.  If you are single and make 50 K (if you make 44, you qualify for a subsidy), you can afford to pay 10-12% for healthcare (instead of free-loadijng at the ER); if you have 2 kids and make 90K, you actually qualify for a subsidy!  How brutal is that?  But if you make 95K and up, you do not.

If indeed you are in the top 10% of wage earners, you can afford to pay 10-12% for healthcare insurance,, and you if you are certain you will never need serious healthcare, just pay the damned 1% penalty and sponge off the public at the ER when you do get injured. 

Healthcare as a right is the supreme law of the land, and therefore the government has the obligation to make it accessible.  If you make too much, it is already accessible.

In the past, 60% of bankruptcies have been due to unpaid medical bills; of those 60%, 3/4 had healthcare coverage of the very crappy kind lacking hospitalization, mental health, full of caps in case you really need it  The ACA will make these bankruptcies a thing of the past.  for all except those who reject it.  

Smoothedward, I second your emotion: stop whining, you idiots!

DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@WalterShann , have you looked at the polls, Obama has more than twice the approval of Republican leaders, and the Democrats have 50% more approval than the Republicans.

By the election, tens of millions will have coverage that never had it before.  Those making over 94K with a family (the limit for subsidies) will complain that they make too much to afford healthcare, and that, as now, will produce some much needed laughter.

DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@Mcschweety wrote " Why would anyone defend outright lies Obama told the whole country, repeatedly?"

Well, no one is defending what he said, but you might consider that the ACA contains a grandfather provision allowing people with older plans, which have not had substantial changes since originated, to keep them.  But the corrupt insurance industry, which siphons off 500 billion in excess overhead (compared to Medicaid, or Medicare), and specialized in crap policies which were cheap but let you down when you needed them, instead of grandfathering in the old policies for the 15 million individual buyers, purposely changed them substantially (usually by raising deductibles or premiums considerably) them so that the grandfather provision, which Obama was relying on to allow these people to keep their old policies, was sabotaged.  So they at once cancel a cheaper (but crappier) policy and send the customer to the exchange to buy a better but more expensive policy (of course for 80% of this demographic, a subsidy will make the better policy actually cheaper) while putting the knife in Obama's back, for daring to regulate the corrupt insurance industry.


So you might say that Obama was naive to trust the insurance predators who have now gotten tens of millions of new customers while stabbing the guy who brought them to them.  Obama thought this was all worked out in the deal that was struck, but just as with the Republicans, with whom he tried to compromise (and the ACA is a huge compromise), and now the insurance industry.  He has learned his lesson.  There is no more trust.

States can bypass this whole ugly scene by instituting public options and single payer plans.  Tell the insurance companies, state by state, that they must either compete with the choice of a public option (which today has a 15% lower overhead than private) or get lost.

Obama's mistake was to trust people who have ripping us off for generations.  The real liars are the insurance corporations who had agreed to grandfather in old policies so people could keep their old policies.  There should have been a provision in the deal that when substantial changes are made, they must pass a review (of a congressional committee) to prove that these changes are necessary.  

 

x000ald000x
x000ald000x

@Mcschweety 

Apparently, the ends justify the means.  

And we get exactly what we deserve.  We believed the President's promises, so we are obviously too stupid to shop for our own kind of insurance.

Now it is one-size-fits all, and if you don't want to join the bandwagon, talk to the IRS.

dobe
dobe

@Mcschweety Did you miss the part where it said, "More than 60 percent of all personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007 were due to medical bills. Of those who declared bankruptcy due to medical costs, about three-quarters had health insurance."?

Healthcare is not comparable to housing or car purchase. Do you really think 75% of those who purchased health insurance and later declared bankruptcy understood that their outlay of dollars for healthcare insurance would not prevent financial disaster? Healthcare is INSURANCE; it does not provide the daily necessity of shelter. In order to legally drive a car, you must provide proof of financial solvency or a current insurance policy. Why? To protect yourself and others you may injure/kill in case of accident. Healthcare INSURANCE is no different. If someone is ill or injured, and uses the costly ER option to get the healthcare they need, that injures the rest of us.

"Jagged edge of socialism?" Please. If you want to trot out that tired image, please don't forget to include police, fire departments, public roads, public schools, Medicare, etc., can be considered inherently "socialist."

gary.eng.arch
gary.eng.arch

@jones.gordont - "Finally I see some reasonable and knowledgeable responses rather than political rants."

Ironic, since you response is completely political and not knowledgeable.  The use of "Right Wing Whackos" puts your comment out of the reasonable ones.

Mcschweety
Mcschweety

Nonsense. I've always had insurance and could afford it. Now I'm losing it to the ACA. I can't even touch the cheapest ACA plan, so your dreams of me covering you are dead. Do you still feel your empty, hostile satisfaction taking my insurance away so others can have their "free" coverage?

Single payer? No dice. Obamacare is imploding, and sending people in the very opposite direction for the exits away from government incompetence and failure.

"Single Payer": the alcoholic plumber who just flooded your basement offers to bulldoze your house and build you a new one. No thanks! Get your clamy government hands the hell out of my life.

AsokSmith
AsokSmith

@BobFromDistrict9 Uh, speaking of no credibility, let's take your statement that "It does not apply to a company plan".

 That statement is patently false. Let me quote from a CNN article from today (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101152063):  

"The Affordable Care Act requires private health insurance to offer that same set of "essential health benefits" as part of the health-care reform law's effort to both improve Americans' overall health, and control long-term medical costs by encouraging preventive care.

These benefits must be included whether they are in employer-sponsored insurance plans—which cover most working Americans—or in individual plans being sold on the open market and by the new government-run marketplaces such as the federally run HealthCare.gov site and the state-run health exchanges."

The only reason the unaffordable, gold-plated KommieKare policy rules haven't kicked in for employer-sponsored plans is that oKommie himself illegally granted businesses a one year stay from implementing their part of KommieKare. When 2015 rolls around, it won't be just millions of people getting kicked out of their current non-KommieKare plans like now, but TENS OF MILLIONS will be kicked off of their employer-sponsored non-KommieKare plans!

Mcschweety
Mcschweety

False. Obama said "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, no matter what. Period"

He didn't say "if you like your plan, you might be able to keep it if....."

Obama lied, repeatedly, selling empty promises and false virtue to the whole country.

His lies are not trivial, and not semantic contortions, like Clinton pulled with "sexual relations" or the meaning of the word "is".

Obama is dealing 3-card full-Monty. He's a stark-raving naked emperor, and now the duped democrat masses know it. Millions are staggering with dismay and sticker shock, and they can't even get a straight answer from a sputtering joke of a website.

Wait until the other shoes drop on obamacare. This is only going to go from a train-wreck in the station to burning down the station and the town.

Mcschweety
Mcschweety

Exactly! If I buy an ACA plan, that's $500 per month burned in an obamacare furnace, not invested for growth, not saved for college or retirement, not spent in the local economy.

Not only is the spending deflated from the economy, the growth and multiplier effect of that spending are sucked out of the economy.

This whole ponzi scheme is economically disastrous.

PaulDirks
PaulDirks

@Yoshi Since the actual percentage of costs retained by insurance companies is fixed by law, you can be guaranteed that every penny of extra cost of insurance is going to come right out of extra cost for medical care. The fact is that people who are forced to spend more for insurance are the ones who are currently being ripped off with inadequate coverage. No one else is affected.


Palerider1957
Palerider1957

@DaleRuff @SmoothEdward1  Well it didn't take me long to realize you are a liar and a pusher of propaganda. You first line was all it took.
Now, Mitt Romney, I don't like him, never did. He is a RINO. He is who the "Establishment RePUKElicans wanted, not the members of their party, ie. the VOTERS!
ACA is an abymall failure and you can try and spin it any way you wish.
"Grandfathering" It was not the insurance companies that changed the policies, (though they were thrilled to do so) it is a part of the ACA. ALL policies MUST contain certain provisions, like birth control, abortion, and a few other things. These changes under the ACA (which mandated the changes in the first place) were enough to VOID 99.9% of all existing policies.
In other words, OBAMA LIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To bad nobody read the Bill before it got passed. Too bad Obama didn't post it on the Internet for 5 days prior to signing it like he promised in his campaign (but then the only two promises he kept are the ACA and supporting muslims).
CNN, Time, MSNBC, even the Huff and Puff are calling Obama a liar.
WHAT!!!!

Next, health care IS NOT A RIGHT!!! Never was, never should be!!! Nice try though.
Now as far as the ACAending bankruptcy due to medical bills....HA HA HA HA  HO ho ho ho ho, he he he he he, you crack me up! Have you ever thought of doing stand-up comedy?

Palerider1957
Palerider1957

@DaleRuff @SmoothEdward1 To bad the TRUTH is getting out. All your bragging about how people are saving money with the ACA. really!!?? Only 50,000 signed up in Oct, when enrolment started.
The FACT that over 20 MILLION people lost their insurance coverage, the facts that every MSM is now covering how O'Blowhole LIED about keeping plans/doctors, and how people's costs have sky-rocketed over 100% does not seem to bother you.
The thing about keeping plans, is that they could only be "Grandfathered: IF there had been NO CHANGES made to the policy. ANY CHANGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then the ACA MANDATED that Insurance companies CHANGE THEIR POLICIES to meet the ACA. When those plans were changed BECAUSE OF THE ACA, those people LOST THEIR PLANS!!!!
It's a lie, and you can try and bury it all you want, Obama LIED!!! KNOWINGLY, Outright, bold face, LIED!!! You know it, America knows it, so, Mr. Government troll, go back to your cubicle, you have been EXPOSED!!!!!!!

Palerider1957
Palerider1957

@DaleRuff @Mcschweety  TROLL ALERT TROLL ALERT
DaleRuff is a GOVERNMENT TROLL, one of them navigators or propaganda spreaders.
HE IS A TROLL!!!!!!

DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@dobe @Mcschweety , the point is that these crappy and often incomprehensible policies did not pay the medical bills!  It has nothing to do with paying rent, etc.  It means you bought insurance cheap but when you needed it, a serious illness or injury, it didn't pay........and so you went bankrupt.


Under the ACA, only those who refuse to buy policies (ie pay the 1% penalty) will be vulnerable to bankruptcies due to unpaid medical bills.


Eliminating bankruptcies for nearly 50% of Americans is a significant and ignored accomplishment.  

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the issue of bankruptcies caused by crappy policies which do not pay the bills.  You all can sort it out from there.

x000ald000x
x000ald000x

@dobe @Mcschweety 

I consider myself a compassionate person, but also fiscally conservative. 

Individual bankruptcy sounds horrible, but it is the discharging of debt.  It is actually an escape valve for many people.  But that option does not exist for public debt.  Public debt has to be paid off thru either austerity in real dollars or thru inflation by dollar destruction.    And it is paid off by future generations who had nothing to do with running it up.

How compassionate is it to convert individual financial emergencies into public debt?

If the nation is bankrupted, the misery of the American People will be orders of magnitude higher than anything we have seen in the worst of times.  

TheSchaef
TheSchaef

@dobe @Mcschweety "Do you really think 75% of those who purchased health insurance and later declared bankruptcy understood that their outlay of dollars for healthcare insurance would not prevent financial disaster?"

Then maybe they should get insurance that prevents financial disaster instead of paying for doctor's appointments and contraceptives.  Oh, wait, catastrophic plans are effectively outlawed now.
"In order to legally drive a car, you must provide proof of financial solvency or a current insurance policy. Why? To protect yourself and others you may injure/kill in case of accident. Healthcare INSURANCE is no different. If someone is ill or injured, and uses the costly ER option to get the healthcare they need, that injures the rest of us."
This is a poor analogy at best.  Auto insurance mandates liability coverage only.  The only way health insurance would be comparable is if the mandate only covered injuries you caused to other people.  Or to be more fair to the difference in the markets, if it were for catastrophic coverage only (like those ER visits).
As for your list of "inherently socialist" services, I would point out that nearly everything you mentioned are local controls, not federal, and the one example that is federal has a fraud rate ten times as high as private insurers and consumes 1/6 of federal outlays.  And it's only going to get more expensive.

TanmayLololAnaisPradhan
TanmayLololAnaisPradhan

@AsokSmith @BobFromDistrict9 Not true. 95% of businesses over 50 employees, ALREADY fulfill Obamacare standards. Small businesses below 50 employees don't have to provide healthcare.

So, a delay of a year does..... exactly... NOTHING to businesses, since almost all already fullfill the requirements of the ACA.

TheSchaef
TheSchaef

@PaulDirks @Yoshi Yes, and that's how we know that these skyrocketing premiums are tied directly to the cost added by ACA requirements.

Mcschweety
Mcschweety

Wrong. I have adequate coverage. Quit telling others what you think they have. I know the parameters of my coverage, and it is a great plan. It is also affordable. I can't afford the ACA option, period.

DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@Palerider1957 @DaleRuff @SmoothEdward1 , you are a crude son of a bitch, but I will answer you.

1)  "It was not the insurance companies that changed the policies, "

Well, it was.  The grandfather provision of the ACA said that old policies could be reissued without meeting the new requirements (such as  hospital coverage) if they did not have substantial changes to the detriment of the policy holder, such as reduced benefits or much higher deductibles, which would void the provision.

They knew this and deliberately changed policies which, if not changed, could have been grandfathered in.  


2)  60% of bankrupticies have been medical bankruptcies, in which 72% HAD healthcare insurance, but it was the cheap junk kind that didn't cover the most  expensive part of healthcare, which is hospitalization, and had caps so that in case of a serious injury or illness, it let you down when you most need it.  The ACA  requires new policies to include hospitalization and it bans caps, so the major causes of medical bankruptcies will be eliminated.


3) You can laugh if it amuses you, but these are the well-documented facts, and I challenge you to hold your mirth and do some fact checking with reliable sources.  


Here is the explanation at healthcare.gov:

"If you are covered by a plan that existed March 23, 2010, your plan may be "grandfathered." You may not get some rights and protections that other plans offer.

Grandfathered plans

Grandfathered plans are those that were in existence on March 23, 2010 and haven’t been changed in ways that substantially cut benefits or increase costs for consumers. Insurers must notify consumers with these policies that they have a grandfathered plan."


This link (from Blue Shield of North Carolina) gives a good explanation of how the grandfather provision works.

http://www.bcbsnc.com/assets/hcr/pdfs/grandfathering.pdf


"grandfathered plans differ from new plans by 

being exempt from the following reform requirements" (the requirements of new policies), and they list 13 items which are exempt.  

Then they explain  how a plan might lose its grandfather status (thru changes the insurance company makes), and they list  items, all of which are harmful to the policy holder (positive changes do not effect the status) including reduction of benefits and increased costs.  

Healthcare is a human right...unless you think a poor child who comes to the hospital with a life-threatening injury, but who lacks insurance or resources, can be turned away.  If you think that child does not have the right to medical treatment, you are a monster.


Palerider1957
Palerider1957

@DaleRuff @Palerider1957 Oh, forgot a couple thing.
#1 400,000 people DID NOT get signed up on "expanded Medicare". Period. End of lie.
#2. Nobody ever said that 20 million policies got cancelled, more like 5 million.
5 million policies cancelled, 10,000 sign up, NOBODY gets anything yet.
And if it is so great, why has pResident Obama EXEMPTED himself and his family from the ACA? It's HIS baby, if it's so good, he should lead by example, don't you think?
Oh, that's funny, "Obama, lead" Can't believe I used those two words in the same sentence. Obama couldn't lead water downhill!

DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@Palerider1957

ACA has signed up 400,000 on expanded Medicaid and 50,000 for exhanges, which is 8 times better than Mass Romney care did in first month, adjusted for population.


20 million have not been cancelled; there are not even that many in the individual market.


The ACA provided for old policies to be grandfathered in if not subtantially changed to detriment of consumer, but the parasitical insurance companies deliberately changed them to void the grandfather provision.

You are wrong on the numbers, ignorant of the grandfather provision: you are badly misinformed but passionate.

DaleRuff
DaleRuff

@x000ald000x @dobe @Mcschweety , why don't we abolish the Federal Reserve and cancel the trillions in debt owned by the FRS?


Why don't we go Constitutional and have the govt print money, instead of the private banks who run the FRS?  We could borrow money at zero interest, make student loans at zero interest, etc.

Let's get rid of the Federal Reserve, get rid of the health insurance companies (with a single payer system, as in all other advanced nations), get rid of the NSA, get rid of the CIA, and strip the total security budget (over a trillion a yr), by 50%. and end all subsidies to wealthy industries like finance, energy, telecom, ag, pharma, MIC)

This is my leftwing shrink government plan, which would create today budget surpluses, smaller govt,  with more freedom and privacy, with universal right to healthcare and education.  

Or we could take food out of the mouths of hungry kids and cut heating aid to poor seniors!  

TheSchaef
TheSchaef

@TanmayLololAnaisPradhan @gary.eng.arch @jones.gordont Yes, clearly the answer is to get behind the party of "smart power":

- who can't decide if they want to bomb Syria or not, but spy extensively on domestic civilians and foreign allies;

- who use the IRS to selectively suppress people who organize behind an idea;

- who spend a trillion dollars not fixing the housing market, a trillion dollars not creating new jobs, and a trillion dollars not fixing health care;

- who spend hundreds of millions on a web site only to have it go down in flames and is still broken a month later;

- who tell people the ACA will not disrupt their current plan if they have one they like, and then proceed to regulate those plans out of existence;

- who tell people their premiums will go down by $2500, only to have millions discover their premiums are going up and taking their deductibles along for the ride;

- who tell people that the bill will lower health care spending, only to contribute to a larger increase in spending than if the plan had not existed;

Yes, clearly it would be "wacko" of me not to vote for people who feed me all those lines and countless more.