Battleland

Smart Business Plan: Hire a Vet

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I know — from personal experience — that folks out there who do the hiring for their companies have no idea what the experience and work ethics are of military veterans.

Although I retired 12 years ago and opted to go to graduate school instead of looking for work right away, I too have faced a brick wall when it came to finding a job after I completed my higher education.

I have a Ph.D. in military sociology, with emphasis on gender issues, yet I have not been able to get an academic job that did not specifically state it has something to do with the military. I am currently in “forced” retirement, blogging on Battleland, volunteering my time with women veterans and other organizations, and teaching part time on line in a Military Studies program for Columbia College of Missouri.

Too young yet for Social Security benefits, I am lucky that I saved money for retirement while I was working, and that I have a fairly generous military retirement from the Navy. I have chosen to drop out of the work force because I can…but that’s not true for the troops leaving the military post 9/11.

The unemployment rate for Gulf War Era II male veterans under age 24 was 29.1% in 2011, compared to 17.6% for non-veterans in the same age group. The rate for male veterans age 25 to 34 also was higher than the rate for their non-veteran counterparts (13.4 and 9.5%, respectively).

For women, the stats are even worse: for female veterans under age 24, the unemployment rate was 36.1% as compared to 14.4% for non-veteran females of the same age. But the numbers improve with age: those 25 to 34 had jobless rates of 10.6% and 9.1%, respectively. But it could also be true that some women became so disillusioned — as I did — that they stopped seeking work, and thus are no longer “unemployed.” Along those same lines, homeless female vets are a growing concern of the Department of Veteran Affairs.

Part of the problem, as I see it, is the public’s misconception of the changes in moving from a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine into the civilian workforce. They may think that this transition negatively affects the individual outcome. Perhaps those that don’t know the day to day job requirements (and life-style) of military personnel perceive them as rigid, capable of taking orders but not able to think independently, followers but not leaders, and very conservative. Perspective employers may also fear the repercussions of Post-Traumatic Stress, or perceive all vets as war-mongering villains, easily able to kill without conscience.

However, the reality is that military veterans are as different from each other as they are the same.

We are not stereotypically rigid, conservative, or unable to think for ourselves. On the contrary, the military provides not only job training, much of which is directly applicable to the civilian workplace, but it also instills a sense of confidence, patriotism, a “can do” work ethic, and the military also develops leadership from day one, even if it is only supervising one person at a time.

As an individual rises in rank, so does his or her responsibility to others and the unit, including increased supervisory roles, as well as the encouragement to innovate as needed to get the job done. This goes from the most junior enlisted person to the most senior ranking officer. The military’s training programs are the equivalent of college courses. In fact, there is a system for veterans to translate such training into college credits.

Yet, unemployment for young veterans is unequally high. Sure, there are many programs for vets to get additional job training, resume-writing workshops, veterans’ job fairs. But the bottom line is America is not hiring.

Senator Patty Murray (D-Wash.), chair of the veteran affairs committee, has a five-step plan to get more veterans hired by the private sector. But while educating human-resource professionals about the benefits a veteran can bring to their workplace is a start (as are her other steps), the key problem remains the fear of the unknown.

In a country where only 1% of the population serves in the military, the other 99% only has what he or she reads in papers or magazines, sees in the news or online, or hears on the radio, to mold their opinion. It would help to enlist our powerful national media in this quest. A media plan developed by the Department of Veteran Affairs, by Congress, or by the Department of Defense could go far to help instruct the public on what being a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine means, and — most importantly — why hiring veterans could be the best thing, not only for the individual and the company, but for America’s future.

49 comments
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William Ayden
William Ayden

Thanks

for such a knowledgeable post. All the points are very clearly defined. Whole

work is appreciable.Cotton Bags

quarterpat
quarterpat

Geeze-o-pete what is wrong with this picture?  As a person of the Viet Nam War vintage I thought our society had learned how destructive the vile and vitriolic language used by some of the commenters on this blog was to a different generation of military veterans.  How can you folks distort and just plain fabricate what you are throwing around as factual? 

 

Dr. Iskra brought up a real issue - it is a tough job market and her stats coincide with those that I teach in Economic Sociology.   And, because I teach at a Community College, I see veterans who are trying to get an education to improve their chances at success.  I will say unequivocally, the veterans I see in class are more mature, work harder and generally are better students than their peers who did not serve.

 

I am not a veteran and have pretty strong dovish leanings, but I am grateful to the men AND women who are willing to join the military and fulfill their duties.

quarterpat
quarterpat

nvr... - how does looking for a job equate to collecting benefits? That statement is a little contradictory - don't you know.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

The "benefit" of having paid spokesmen drafting article on your behalf in the press. 

The "benefit" of deserving a job as a veteran by fiat.

The "benefit" of society being commanded to accept a veterans claim of  greater skills in any area without the proof demanded of others.

The "benefit" of have the government enact a "veterans preference" in hiring.

The "benefit" being held above reproach and scrutiny because of Veterans day. 

quarterpat
quarterpat

NVR...  someone has hurt you, haven't they?  That's where this bitterness originates - right?  Perhaps you were not hired for a job someplace along the line and you need to hold someone responsible - so you attribute (scapegoat) your non-hiring to veteran's preference.  Or maybe you tried to enlist in the military and were turned away?

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

Veteran got up early went to a church and wounded 4 and killed 6 people before losing a gunfight with a police officer. A college punk, slept in and went to the movie theater and 70 people and killed 12. Veteran wins only in kill percentage.College punk wins in kill count

College punk wins in wounded count

College punk wins by still being alive. (will be a draw in a bit)

James J Cahill
James J Cahill

 The biggest "institutional barrier"  facing vets is not the job issue but the 90-10 loophole in the student loan laws enacted in 1995.  For every one veteran a school has on their roles using the GI Bill the schools and banks get 9 ferderaly guaranteed student loans for non veterans!! Just using their GI bill money with their online(University Of Phoenix, DeVery and Stanford) theses  private schools fund thier programs with federal money.  The true  effect is  schools refusal  to  give  credit for military training and experince   delays  the time when veterans can complete school thereby  staying out t of the job market. 

freefallingbomb
freefallingbomb

 To the author Mrs. Darlene M. Iskra / “Diver7900”

You wrote: “Not ALL people who join the military are criminals.”

The others committed suicide.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

Veteran got up early went to a church and wounded 4 and killed 6 people before losing a gunfight with a police officer. A college punk, slept in and went to the movie theater and 70 people and killed 12. Veteran wins only in kill percentage.College punk wins in kill count

College punk wins in wounded count

College punk wins by still being alive. (will be a draw in a bit)Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/07...

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

The only task I have found where veterans are more successful than civilians.

Jim S.
Jim S.

The new 'magnetic ribbons', the 'parades' and 'welcome home celebrations', with no demand for sacrifice get same results, but 'parades' only last a few hours on one day! Think 'Desert Storm' and 'Gulf War Syndrome', Ignored till the last couple of years, finally, after the 'Parades'! Have the 'Welcome Home Parades' but at each the one word that should be spoke and on the minds of All, 'Sacrifice', Demand It, You Owe It!

No Revenues {nor private capital economic investments, free market capitalism} = No Sacrifice = No Support = DeJa-Vu all over again!. Now a decade and counting, told to go shopping, added to the previous decades of under funding the VA, while the peoples reps Still try and lay blame on the Agency, after rubber stamping wars and costs of and those represented cheer on these wars!

While the wealthy and other investors garner their booty, still, from both and many have the chutz·pa to call themselves more patriotic{?} then others wrapped in those false flags, using false slogans and various cheap symbols of and then seek one day events or parades to wave all that patriotism, call it "Supporting the Troops", then go home and either ignore or forget about those that actually sacrificed for the country!

USN '67-'71 All Shore GMG3 Vietnam In Country '70-'71

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

A vet, did a job, got paid for it and now wants to continue to collect benefits for the rest of their life.  Talk about an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

Unemployment of veterans is more linked to recruiter lies about difficult (if not impossible to get) college payments than having geniune skills upon discharge. Dishonest Marketing by the recruiters about "gaining skills" is the problem - not that employers keep finding veterans problematic as employees.

The most pervasive skill I have found in veterans is the ability to appear busy without actually getting work done. They fail under basic measured performance reviews. With recruiting standards dropping, there is nothing but the people I wouldn't hire going into the military and the same people coming out with short haircuts and an air of entitlement.

With Veterans like:

Robert Bales

Lee Harvey Oswald

Timothy McViegh

John Allen Muhammad

Charles Whitman

I'm going to pick and chose which veterans I hire.

Darlene speaks like a fully indoctrinated zombie. A dozen other lines of work have better discipline and put themselves in greater harms way than the often venerated veterans. Define the esteemed attributes of "veterans"and you will find many many more than just veterans qualify. Military indoctrination was so biased and pervasive that in most countries you get a holiday for your efforts, but then not on merit, but on furthering the delusion of entitlement which is most of the problem.

Veterans represent a disproportionate number of violent crime inmates too. Starting much higher on the violence ladder than the typical inmate. Something about the brainwashing used by the military being unleashed on an unsuspecting public is indefensible.

I checked with my grandfather if his purple heart was diminished by the sense of entitlement others felt for merely having served, and he said "Yes". I have my share of tri-folded flags never to unfurl again and petty self entitled corpsmen is why it is so unsettling to rubber stamp those who merely filled aspace in the ranks without achieving anything meritorious.  

So careful about misjudging someone whose sense of perception is un-corrupted by the military  brainwashing methods developed over the past half a century.

Diver7900
Diver7900

Wow.  This is Darlene, and I am not a fully indoctrinated zombie.  I say it like I see it; Most vets are not looking for handouts, they want to (again) serve their country be being a fully engaged member of society through work.  Not sure where you are getting your stats on violent crime, but please don't say something that has not been vetted as true... my stats came from the Department of Labor; would like to know where yours came from.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

I wrote "Veterans represent a disproportionate number of violent crime inmates too. Starting much higher on the violence ladder than the typical inmate."

The Newsman wrote:

"Police say local Wisconsin authorities had no contact with the gunman who killed six people at a Sikh temple before the attack. Police Chief John Edwards said Monday that authorities in suburban Milwaukee didn't have any run-ins with Wade Michael Page before Sunday's shootings."

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

Bureau of Prisons, thy tend to know a lot about incarceration rates.

The recruiter told you society would herald your contributions. 

The recruiter said you'd be building job skills for after military service.

The recruiter said you'd get the college funding you could not afford.

Your commanding officers trained you to serve your country claiming we needed our freedoms defended.

You where indoctrinated using time proven brainwashing techniques of lack of sleep, hard labor and blinding authority under the guise that our nation would owe you a great debt.

Guess what?   

They lied.  (Recruiters lies are absolved by statute)

If you opt to promote the lie - the brainwashing sunk in.

The statistics speak for themselves.  Veterans did not gain useful skills.

A couple of hours shooting at your own troops in Grenada does not translate to useful job skills in civilian life.

It then falls to media manipulation of the implanted patriotism that people like you attempt to bolster veteran's  standings in the job market. In an attempt to self fulfill the dis-proven prophesy about the value to society of returning veterans.

Yeah it sucks. 

Telling people the truth from the beginning would make brainwashing harder It would certainly cut the homelessness of veterans and strip away this  sense of entitlement which belligers true progress.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

You clearly did not learn basic soldiering skills. Although clearly you where told you did.

Measure against an objective scale and not the fake standard provided by your handlers.

Jimmy Ray Thacker
Jimmy Ray Thacker

 Wow, you sure are stupid. My recruiter told me no such thing. He only told me I would travel and learn basic soldiering skills, which I did. Not sure what chip you have on your shoulder, but would love the opportunity to knock it off of you.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

Is the job-skill acquired, according to your military experience, of not losing your mind in combat (and shooting over the heads of the enemy and into the heads of allies, or civilians) only available in the military?

Many, many people without military training can shoot over the heads of enemies, and a few have managed to accidentally shoot someone else. Too many people can already shoot "enemies" without military training. A few have managed to shoot themselves without military training.

Unique jobs skills acquired? None.

You are demonstrating that critical thinking skills lost.

As for motivation to join, suffice to say boot camp is not the only brainwashing arm of the military.

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

My recruiter started to say all that and I said - I don't care.  Somebody needs to the do the job and despite my perfect entrance exam scores I want to make a difference on the ground.  We didn't all join for the bennies asshat.  They are nice, but some  joined so people like you, who would lose your mind in combat and get somebody killed, wouldn't have to.  BTW some joined not even needing a job.  I've met people that can buy and sell you, (I'll guarantee that as one example had a near 9 figure net worth), and they joined to serve the country.  Suck a fat one.

Diver7900
Diver7900

Not ALL people who join the military are criminals. 

freefallingbomb
freefallingbomb

 To the poster “nvrtalk”

You wrote: “The statistics speak for themselves. Veterans did not gain useful skills.”

Six stars for that simple, synthetic statement!

I find it tragic that one must make such observations and denounce the dishonesty of Army recruiters in parking lots and on university campuses etc. in a “democracy”. Basically, this reveals the nonnecessity ergo the senselessness of that particular “democracy's” wars, a strong accusation. Meaning: Even crippled and homeless veterans wouldn't feel so bitter about their fate and about their recruiters' false promises if they knew, if they had felt under their skin, that their war had been just, for example if they had defended America's borders.

But the last attack on Pearl Harbour already happened 71 years ago...

If a war is JUST , veterans however will forgive even dictators all their lies! For example: After World War Two the Soviet, civilian and military defenders of Leningrad certainly didn't mind too much that Uncle Joe Stalin didn't quite finish his “Socialist workers' and peasants' Paradise on Earth”. Not after what was at stake back then.

However nobody is threatening the U.S.A. today, and since civilians already became aware that even a few years in the Armed Forces can derail their planned careers or affect them physically and mentally forever, apparently even Uncle Sam's big money bait doesn't work anymore.

Not even at the nadir of a severe economic crisis!

Worse: I suspect that EVEN IF the U.S. Armed Forces suddenly decided to reach even deeper into their pockets and baffle all young civilians fit for military service and old veterans, too, by creating a comprehensive, generous, fully implemented social program that recycles veterans back into Society and gives them social housing, food and maybe even job training, etc., the U.S.A.'s state of Perpetual War (and its increasing obviousness and unpopularity) would still deter most military enthusiasts from signing up, if they still have that option.

freefallingbomb
freefallingbomb

 He wrote (quote) “With recruiting standards dropping, there is nothing but the people I wouldn't hire going into the military (...)” and he's not lying about that. Everybody knows that the U.S. Armed Forces hire their soldiers among the criminals, with waivers and such:

“The war's unpopularity and the prospect of a draft have resulted in enlistment standards being relaxed over the past few years to allow recruitment of those with criminal records.”

http://freebooks.uvu.edu/SOC10...

These guys didn't commit their first violent crimes AFTER they left the service, but already BEFORE they enlisted!

Still doubts?

Fatesrider
Fatesrider

 It's not a JOB, you thumb-kissing toad.  If you equate service to one's country as a "job" it's pretty damned obvious you have do damn clue about what vets face, do and why. 

And I f*cking DARE YOU TO CALL ANY VET "SELF-ENTITLED" TO THEIR FACE!

You never put a damn thing ahead of yourself than your own self interest and you have the unmitigated GALL to call vets "self-entitled"???

Next time you see a vet whose body was twisted and broken in service to his country, you had better kiss his ass for putting it on the line to protect YOUR  right to prove you're a moron in such a public way.

Guest
Guest

 the unemployment rate is calculated from those actually looking for work (which excludes those in university)

Christiana Nielson
Christiana Nielson

 I'm a Web Reporter at Veterans United Home Loans, and I think this article does a good job of explaining the issue of veterans getting jobs. There needs to be a better way to target veterans looking for jobs. Veterans United writes about all issues related to veterans here: http://www.veteransunited.com/....

Christiana.Nielson@veteransunited.com

anyonelsewondering
anyonelsewondering

every time is see such high numbers of unemployed veterans under the age of 24, I wonder if those stats take into consideration whether those former soldiers are in college or university.  I know I was in that boat when I got out at 22, going to school full-time and not working.  That seems the most likely outcome for most young vets, go to college on the very ample GI Bill. I'm pretty sure that if those numbers were subtracted the unemployment rate for vets under 24 would be far lower.  

Diver7900
Diver7900

Unemployment rates are stats for people who are actively looking for a job.  If you are in college and you are not looking for a job, you are not "unemployed".  If you do not have a job, but you are not looking for a job, guess what...you are not in the unemployments stats.

Serge
Serge

 Not sue what to say. As a small business owner currently looking for one additional employee, I'd be happy to hire a vet.If anything I would imagine they are more easily taught to do the job properly. Problem is, where do you go to say post a job application targeting vets directly? theres no central database, or listing service for this. Our vet center in LA off wilshire was clueless when I made an inquiry about making a posting for job recruitment somewhere at their center. Its not that ppl discriminate against vets, its theres no way to target them directly for employment.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

Veteran got up early went to a church and wounded 4 and killed 6 people before losing a gunfight with a police officer. A college punk, slept in and went to the movie theater and 70 people and killed 12. Veteran wins only in kill percentage.College punk wins in kill count

College punk wins in wounded count

College punk wins by still being alive. (will be a draw in a bit)

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 If you're in California there is also Calvet.  It's always nice to see something in their job e-mails that's doing work a monkey could do for Crossmark

Johnathan Tillman
Johnathan Tillman

Companies do not hire people because of incentives, and they will not hire people simply because of their veteran status.  It all comes down to the ability to do the job.  Veterans are the perfect fit for many in demand skills and careers: medical assistant, CNA, nurse, engineering technician, electricians, electronic technicians, mechanics, welders, network technicians, etc, etc...  The real problem is, most veterans who have not already done the job as a civilian have no idea how to communicate that experience in a way their civilian counterparts understand. Lets face it, even between branches of the military the language used is different. Most civilian hiring managers, hr people, etc do not have a military background. It really is all about communication.  It is a whole lot easier to education veterans coming out of the service than to education 300,000,000+ people in the nation. 

Navy veteran says:  "Monitored and maintained chemistry on support systems for nuclear reactor capable of powering US Navy aircraft carrier." 

Business owner, hr person thinks: "Wow, that is really impressive.  I have an opening for someone to keep the pH of my beverage brewing system.  I don't have a nuclear reactor yet, but if I ever get one I'll call this veteran. 

My suggestion is, if you are a veteran and having difficulty getting hired go strait into your closest workforce center and ask they to help you figure out how to communicate your value to the jobs you've been applying to.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

I worked at a place that may have hired that veteran.  I recall his claimed  military service included monitoring a shipboard reactor.

He was a real multi-tasker.

He was such a multi-tasker that he ran a side business while at work.

It was big stink when he got caught, his admissions got his supervisor and even a few co-workers  fired.  Criminal charges ensued, none stuck to him. The side-business never took off.

He was basically radioactive after that. He had to use his now ex-wife's money to buy is own now unsuccessful business because nobody would hire that veteran anymore.

Must have been the skills he learned in the Military.

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

 That hiring manager is a moron and should be fired and replaced with that vet.

Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson

If that were my company and the hiring manager said that to me after the interview, I'd keep as straight a face as possible, go to my office, call said vet and ask "If I'm willing to pay you an additional 20K a year will you work as my HR manager AND my beverage QA manager?"  Then I'd walk back into the other room, tell my HR manager she had better start looking for another job because a more intelligent and competent person has just been hired.

I'll have just saved myself quite possibly 25K a year, (not including potential savings from having a non-idiotic HR manager), by filling a 35-45K a year position for 20K and by eliminating one more drain on my employee insurance plan.

freefallingbomb
freefallingbomb

 To the poster Mr. Johnathan Tillman

You wrote: “Navy veteran says: 'Monitored and maintained chemistry on support systems for nuclear reactor capable of powering US Navy aircraft carrier.' Business owner, H.R. person thinks: 'Wow, that is really impressive. I have an opening for someone to keep the pH of my beverage brewing system. I don't have a nuclear reactor yet, but if I ever get one I'll call this veteran.' ”

Well then maybe that unemployed nuclear engine controller in your example oughtta search for a comparable job at one of America's 104 nuclear power plants (if even Homer Simpson works there), not at Coca-Cola. One should be able to expect at least that much basic common sense from a highly trained engineer... I think.

Although it really isn't that uncommon here in Europe to see former East European and Russian nuclear engineers and other zany ex-experts voluntarily working as unskilled manual labourers at civil construction sites, carrying buckets of rubble all day and even being grateful about it, because they get MUCH , MUCH better paid here than back at home! As you see, hyper-specialization, over-qualification and even an excessively high I.Q. can be disadvantageous. Especially if the interviewing H.R. Manager is a young, clueless “urban woman” (a b*tch, in man speak) who feels intimidated by mature, male, extremely capable employees, and therefore only surrounds herself with even younger, even more brainless, but totally manipulable chicks... Maybe you understand what I mean.

Still, once a discharged U.S. soldier learns – say – basic computer maintenance amp; networking (any 3.000-$-Cisco course will do) and starts working – say – in a computer shop in a mall, how hard should it be for him to serve a client who brought his laptop along and wants – for example – an upgrade for his Windows operating system or solve a problem caused by the graphic card or make his laptop detect other computers of his home network, and so on? Would his past military language really jumble and stress the way he communicates and relates to that client and to his civilian colleagues and superiors while he works? I think that the secure, well-paid, technical jobs which you and I listed generally even offer very little opportunity for social contacts!

Finally, if a military veteran learned to do a technical job really well (even if he HATES it. If it puts food on the table...), why would he waste time sending hundreds of résumés in the first place, answering the a$$holish questions of just another clean-faced, feigning recruiting woman and work for her slave-driving pig of a boss?

If he put some money aside, why doesn't he just rent a shop, or at least a tall van, fill it with a complete, high-quality tool set (= everything 100 % tax-deductible expenses!), stuff flyers into all mailboxes in his town, pay some ads in telephone books, in local newspapers and the Web and start his own one-man-business? Or find specialists in other areas and partner with them? At least he should try once! How many U.S. Americans keep complaining to me how hard it is for them to find some really skilled mason, carpenter, tinsmith, even plumber and electrician (!) over there, no matter how much they are willing to pay them... I can hardly believe it.

Finally, should that vet fail as an independent entrepreneur and have to go to work for some company (which is also money...), any professional experience and clientel he amassed until then will only prove very useful to him.

The most dynamic technicians which I know even do BOTH things: From 9ºº to 17ºº they work in a private company or public utility, and on the evenings and on weekends they do extra jobs (totally receipt-less, of course. After all, this is France) !

Fatesrider
Fatesrider

You still have no clue.  I'm pretty sure you have no connection with reality, too.

It's not about capability or qualifications.  It's about QUALITY of WORKER.

A vet knows that the job needs to get done.  A civilian doesn't.  A vet expects to be hired to do the job.  A civilian expects to get benefits and really good pay and wonders how the vacation plans are.  A veteran has the self discipline to show up to work on time, do the job on time, obey orders, supervise and positively workers and focus on the business.  A civilian will call in sick, slide in late, leave early, slack half the time of Facebook, dump their responsibilities on underlings, take long lunches and focus on what they'll do over the weekend.

In short, a vet takes their job seriously.  A civilian doesn't.  I'd rather have someone who's qualifications aren't so great but whose focus IS than some highly qualified slacker looking for the better job offer.

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

Veteran got up early went to a church and wounded 4 and killed 6 people before losing a gunfight with a police officer. 

A college punk, slept in and went to the movie theater and 70 people and killed 12. 

Veteran wins only in kill percentage.

College punk wins in kill count

College punk wins in wounded count

College punk wins by still being alive. (will be a draw in a bit)

nvrtalk
nvrtalk

Vets fail to do all you claim under quantitative measure. share a few stats backing up each of your claims.

Veterans with PTSD miss on average an additional 2.8 days of work per month compared to workers without PTSD.

So how can a vet outshine a civilian on attendance and timeliness? 

With 11-20% of non-disabled "employable" veterans crippled in performance by PTSD they cannot climb over their triple likelihood of alcohol dependence, six times the suicide rate 3.7 times the drug dependence and outperform my attendance, timeliness and dedication. I take a lunch break every few weeks, I've not taken a sick day in over a year. I do not "Facebook" even off-hours.

How does a veteran show up more often to work when they are more often drunk, more often drugged up,  and only more successful at suicide?

 You will find, like those of us with powers of observation that a veteran does not stack up.   The poor quality worker going into the military comes out a poor quality worker with a sense of entitlement. Drop your fake machismo and belittle civilians no more. 

Deborah W. Bartolome
Deborah W. Bartolome

That seems the most likely outcome for most young vets, go to college on the very ample GI Bill. ..MayorMoney.blogspot.com

Fatesrider
Fatesrider

The GI bill is somewhat limited and college obviously has no bearing on whether someone will get a job.  After all, the author of this article has a f*cking PhD and can't get a job!

freefallingbomb
freefallingbomb

Once again the author, Mrs. Darlene M. Iskra, is totally wrong about everything she says: NOBODY has any prejudices against vets, never had. The real issue here is a totally different one, one of

PROPER QUALIFICATIONS !!!

Strangely or not, coincidence or not, but the professions LEAST affected by economic crisis are PRECISELY the ones which I would describe as absolutely “war-essential” jobs or skills: Welders, lathe (!) and C.N.C. machinists, car, precision and aeronautical mechanics, electricians, electronics and I.T. experts, chemists, physicians, nurses, etc., etc. . Plenty of U.S. American Web articles constantly list them as EXTREMELY crisis-resistant, too, and most of these jobs DON'T even require university. (Soft sciences however are completely f****d in times of crisis... Even management and financial courses are!)

Since the economy of every industrialized country constantly needs such technicians, gladly even importing them from exotic mud countries, why not recommend discharged veterans (Ok, at least the males. And yeah, I saw U.S. actress Jennifer Beals welding in “Flashdance”, too...) to learn these jobs, maybe even giving them classes after they're out of uniform? I wouldn't even be the least bit surprised if the military-industrial complex itself became the main employer of these technical workers, even without any fiscal incentives!

Fatesrider
Fatesrider

With businesses these days demanding qualifications in their applicants even God Himself doesn't have, I would have expected someone who thinks

"qualifications" are important to have more sense.  It's NOT "qualifications".  It never really was.  It's about maximizing the return on employee investment.  The prevailing theory is that the more things a person can do without being trained to do them, the more cost savings the business will see.  This has been proven to be false in several recent studies.

I already knew that.

As a business owner, I know something about employees.  Qualifications actually make LESS of a return on employee investment than the quality of worker.  I would rather take someone with a demonstrated track record of reliability and a provable work ethic that in some tangible way relates to the job that's open than some highly qualified individual with no proven track record.  Far more often than not, I will get more return on my training investment with a reliable employee than taking chances on well qualified people who may only be looking for the next step up.

A DD-214 can tell someone who knows how to read it an awful lot about the character of that person.  A college transcript tells almost nothing about the character of a person.  And for cost-savings, good employee character trumps good qualifications often enough to make it a better investment risk.

freefallingbomb
freefallingbomb

 To the poster “Fatesrider”

You wrote: “It's NOT 'qualifications'. It never really was. [...] As a business owner, I know something about employees. Qualifications actually make LESS of a return on employee investment than the quality of worker. I would rather take someone with a demonstrated track record of reliability and a provable work ethic that in some tangible way relates to the job that's open than some highly qualified individual with no proven track record.”

When I was young and naïf I thought so, too (and believe me, I WAS idealistic), but today I can't help but wonder: How specialized exactly is the activity of your workers, or of your business?

If you, a self-described business owner, suddenly need someone who speaks a foreign language or who knows how to make pivot tables in Excel or Access or who knows how to double-clutch a heavy truck, etc., etc., what do you do: Just hire an even stauncher, harder-working, more ethical and more loyal employee, as long as he holds no diplomas?

Guest
Guest

though i applaud sen murray's initiative, all of these things have already been in effect for some time with little or no effect. companies will not hire unless there are incentives for doing so (such as tax breaks or contracting preferences like certain ethnic groups receive.) the american public is big on the empty gesture (yellow ribbon tags and thank yous in the airport.

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